Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in english

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solbjerg
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by solbjerg » 02 Aug 2012 11:12

Hi Sisyphe

I understand it as a litmus test on jackass/wise-guy remarks.

Cheers
solbjerg
Sisyphe wrote::hello: Hi...

Reading a scholar paper, yet unsually written in very unscholar way. I understand there is a pun, but I do not understand the pun :
Many people writing on walls nowadays seem to regard themselves as remarkably witty in their message or comebacks, no matter how silly they really are. This tradition of the inscribed witticism surely dates back to ther earliest times. But are we always aware of this fact, when it comes to linguistics analysis of Greek wall inscriptions? An acid test (or rather : jack-acid test), challenging our skills in that respect, can easily be provided : [follows an inscription, possibly to be understood as an homophobic onset]
I quite understand an "acid-test" (a test which destroys our pre- or misconceptions on matters it goes on), how is "jack-acid" to be understood :-o ?

Lot of thanks in advance (for I will forgot thereafter).

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Sisyphe » 21 Jul 2013 00:20

A word and an expression I never saw before - the paper is about a matter of archaeology.

These characteristics, common to the threee peces, almost certainly prove the sole authorship of what is, in fact, just one artefact. This is borne out by the fact that artefact 1 and 3 are complementary and they fit together perfectly when the latter is turned ninety degrees to the left
"Ceci est renforcé/confirmé par le fait ?" But using the particle "out" seems to me quite odd here...

Thanks in advance,

S.
La plupart des occasions des troubles du monde sont grammairiennes (Montaigne, II.12)

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Olivier » 21 Jul 2013 12:59

bear out = support the truth of = renforcer, confirmer
-- Olivier
Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy: Ni trop petit(e), ni trop grand(e):
Éppen hozzám való vagy! Tu es juste fait(e) pour moi!

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Sisyphe » 12 Aug 2013 15:24

:hello: Here I am one more time... Two expressions in the same paper (of 1915....) I hardly understand :

First, an abbreviation (it is of no consequence, but I am curious)
The "X parchments" are a small collection so named from the printers and publishers, Messrs. Y and Z, to whose liberality it owes it foundation
What "Messrs" stays for ? It could neither be "misters", nor "mistresses"... It could "Messieurs", but the names does not look dot be french (actually, they do note look to be of any origin whatsoever)... Is there a reason, appart from the fact that they would have been [<- greet reservations about my modal agreement : past hypothesis ? actually french, why drawing on the french address formula ?
An imperial rescript in Latin, showing that in the second century the class of minor offical called XY formed a corporation, and were subject to a property qualification is infortunately much mutilated
How do you understand "property qualification" ? "Sujets à un régime de propriété ? À un droit de propriété ?"

:jap: Many thanks in advance...
La plupart des occasions des troubles du monde sont grammairiennes (Montaigne, II.12)

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Olivier » 23 Aug 2013 11:16

As I understand it in this context, "property qualification" means that one of the conditions for being qualified for this office is that they own land.
-- Olivier
Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy: Ni trop petit(e), ni trop grand(e):
Éppen hozzám való vagy! Tu es juste fait(e) pour moi!

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by solbjerg » 02 Oct 2013 12:58

Olivier wrote:As I understand it in this context, "property qualification" means that one of the conditions for being qualified for this office is that they own land.
-- Olivier
Hi Olivier
In the old days it meant that if you owned land you were automatically qualified for a number of advantages.
(also in "the land of the free --") :-)
Today I think that it mostly means that you have qualified for managing estates or the sale therof (estate agents)
Cheers
solbjerg

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Sisyphe » 03 Oct 2013 15:32

solbjerg wrote:
Olivier wrote:As I understand it in this context, "property qualification" means that one of the conditions for being qualified for this office is that they own land.
-- Olivier
Hi Olivier
In the old days it meant that if you owned land you were automatically qualified for a number of advantages.
(also in "the land of the free --") :-)
Today I think that it mostly means that you have qualified for managing estates or the sale therof (estate agents)
Cheers
solbjerg
Seems to be logical in this context. Thanks to both of you. :jap:
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Sisyphe » 04 May 2014 01:54

In my poorish attempts to improve my english, I listen these days at the marvellous, yet quite unknown in France, comic operas of Gilbert and Sullivan, trying to understand all the lyrics, inclusive puns, of the libretto.

Recently I heard the great air of the First Lord of Admiralty in the HMS Pinafore. If you do not know it, this version is but tremendous :sun: ! Such a description of his "career" could suit adequalty some french ministers of education :evil:...

There is but a small fact I do not understand in this site which seemed to be very factual and reliable however :
When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
And I polished up the handle of the big front door.
I polished up that handle so carefullee
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee !
From whence comes this orthography ? Is it archaical (I lately discovered, reading Alice in Wonderland in english - an other exercise I imposed to myself - that some orthographical features were not yet the same as today in victorian english), or is supposed to stretch the fact that the [ i ] would be long here ? But this vowel does not seem unusally long in the music, is it ? :roll:

:jap: Thanks...
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by solbjerg » 06 May 2014 19:18

Hi Sisyphe
Interesting. - I see it mostly as a helpful gesture to the singers
But alternatively it could also be poking a bit of fun at the carefulness performed in the Navy when chosing the Ruler of the Queens Navee
Cheers
solbjerg
p.s. It may even be so prosaic that it is an attempt to avoid being sued by the navy - they would be able to postulate that they were talking about the Queens Navee, which would be an imaginary entity. :-)
They would then have to change the spelling of carefully to carefullee to preserve the rhyme in the written form.
Sisyphe wrote:In my poorish attempts to improve my english, I listen these days at the marvellous, yet quite unknown in France, comic operas of Gilbert and Sullivan, trying to understand all the lyrics, inclusive puns, of the libretto.

Recently I heard the great air of the First Lord of Admiralty in the HMS Pinafore. If you do not know it, this version is but tremendous :sun: ! Such a description of his "career" could suit adequalty some french ministers of education :evil:...

There is but a small fact I do not understand in this site which seemed to be very factual and reliable however :
When I was a lad I served a term
As office boy to an Attorney's firm.
I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
And I polished up the handle of the big front door.
I polished up that handle so carefullee
That now I am the Ruler of the Queen's Navee !
From whence comes this orthography ? Is it archaical (I lately discovered, reading Alice in Wonderland in english - an other exercise I imposed to myself - that some orthographical features were not yet the same as today in victorian english), or is supposed to stretch the fact that the [ i ] would be long here ? But this vowel does not seem unusally long in the music, is it ? :roll:

:jap: Thanks...

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Sisyphe » 08 Aug 2014 22:13

How would you translate "to pour something down the drain" ? Context is to be found here, at the begining of the texte, which shows, alas, a lot of lacks - "c3" in epigraphical habits means : lack of about three letters ;) .

:jap: Thanks in advance...
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Beaumont » 09 Aug 2014 05:18

The link doesn't work but I understand this expression as "jeter quelque chose à l'égoût", so something like "mettre à la poubelle", "faire disparaître", "enterrer (un projet)"...
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Sisyphe » 09 Aug 2014 15:50

I corrected the link, the text in now available...

The guy who wrote the letter is complaining to an offical about someone who mistreated him. Question is how to understand the latin verb effundere, which normally mean "to pour out" (cf. here).
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by solbjerg » 09 Aug 2014 16:31

Hi Sisyphus
Is it the French expression "été flushée" you are looking for?
It usually goes down the drain if you flush it :-) :D
All his efforts had been in vain - all his attempts had gone down the drain as I understood it.
Cheers
solbjerg

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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by Beaumont » 09 Aug 2014 16:33

Then I don't know where the translator got the "down the drain" part... How would you say "drain" in Latin anyway?
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Re: Sisyphus' thread for grammatical and lexical help in eng

Post by solbjerg » 09 Aug 2014 17:28

Hi Beaumont
Effunder means pour (~out) I think
An eufemism for that could be "pour down the drain" (spilling it) "été flushée", flush it away
After a few tries he might get so adept at pouring that he actually will flush out the refuse he is trying to get rid of :D
He might even get a favourable ruling on his petition :D
Cheers
solbjerg

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