English to breton, help

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luella175
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English to breton, help

Post by luella175 »

Hello,
I am trying to write a story about my ancestor, Jean Elie dit Breton, who immigrated to Nouvelle France from Meneac in the mid 1660’s.  I am trying to incorporated some short words, phrases, and one blessing in Breton, but I am having difficulty finding anyone who can help me with the language. Please correct my Breton and translate the others. Thanks you for your help.
PLEASE CORRECT:
Go with God=Mont a rez gant Doue  
My son (priest addressing male)= ma ar mab
Father (addressing a priest)= an Tad
Mother =mamm or vamm?
Thank you very much, Father(priest) =Trugarekaat, an Tad    
Good luck=chañs vat
Hello  Father(priest)=demat au Tad  
Hello=salud      
wonderful!=dispar!

PLEASE TRANSLATE:
Hired Hand (engagés)=
Such is Life (C'est la vie)=
Large land holding, farm (seigneurie)=
Lord (not God, but important man (seigneur)=
Foreman/overseer of a seigneurie but not the owner=

Also could someone translate “May the Lord bless you and keep you, May the Lord. . . “ into Breton?
Que l'Éternel te bénisse, et qu'il te garde!
Que l'Éternel fasse luire sa face sur toi, et qu'il t'accorde sa grâce!
Que l'Éternel tourne sa face vers toi, et qu'il te donne la paix!
Au nom du Père. et du Fils, et du Saint-Esprit! 
Ainsi soit-il.   
Thank you very much! I appreciate your help. Luella
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Maïwenn
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by Maïwenn »

I can ask my friend who is a priest for the specific sentences regarding God. However, I'm not sure he can connect to the internet regularly, it may take some time before he answers.

Here are my corrections:

Go with God=Mont a rez gant Doue . This is not correct, but I don't know what is used exactly
My son (priest addressing male)= ma mab
Father (addressing a priest)= Ma zad
Mother = mamm
Thank you very much, Father(priest) = Mersi braz deoc'h, ma zad
Good luck=chañs vat
Hello Father(priest)= Salud deoc'h ma zad
Hello= salud
wonderful!=dispar!

PLEASE TRANSLATE:
Hired Hand (engagés)= I'd use mevel (mevelien for plural). Implijidi (employees) would be too modern here
Such is Life (C'est la vie)= I think we would say : E giz-se emañ (that's how it is). But C'est la vie is
e giz-se emañ ar vuhez
Large land holding, farm (seigneurie)= douar an aotrou
Lord (not God, but important man (seigneur)= Aotrou
Foreman/overseer of a seigneurie but not the owner= merour

However if your ancestor was from Meneac, he probably didn't speak Breton exactly that way. In that part of Brittany, their dialect is very different. But I know very little about it myself and I can't say how different it was.
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Le commencement d'un monde
luella175
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by luella175 »

Hello,
Thank you for the information that you have supplied. I appreciate it very much. I am patient and look forward to the priest's translations of the greetings and the blessing. I don't know much about the different dialects of Breton. Are they very different from each other? I will use the information that you gave me until I find different. I'm just happy that you replied to my inquiry and helped me. Thank you again, Lue
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Maïwenn
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by Maïwenn »

I wrote to my friend, I'll post it as soon as he answers me.

The dialect spoken in Morbihan, where your ancestor comes from, is very different from the other ones, especially for the written form. But for your story I guess it's not that important :)
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luella175
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by luella175 »

Hello Maïwenn,
Thank you again for your help. You are right. For my purpose, I don't suppose that the dialect matters. I await your priest's translation for the religious phrases, greetings, and the blessing. I really appreciate your time and effort on my behalf.
Luella
luella175
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by luella175 »

Hello again Maïwenn,
I forgot to ask you a question. When making a plural of aotrou, would I just add an s and make it aotrous?
Thanks again for all of your help.
Luella
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Maïwenn
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by Maïwenn »

luella175 wrote: I forgot to ask you a question. When making a plural of aotrou, would I just add an s and make it aotrous?
Not at all ;)

There are many ways to form the plural forms in Breton (-ou, -ien, -ed...), but never "-s".

Aotrou : aotrouien
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luella175
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by luella175 »

Thanks for the answer for the plurals. How do I make aotrou possessive? In the 1600's when land was sold a tax had to be paid (Fr. lods et ventes). Is there a translation in Breton for this tax? You are wonderful to help me.
Lue
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Maïwenn
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by Maïwenn »

I have no idea about the name of this tax... Taxes in Breton is "tailhou"

What do you mean about making aotrou possesive? "The lord's house" for example? Or "my lord"?
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luella175
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by luella175 »

Yes. For example: the Lord's house, or the Lord's land, etc.
Thanks
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Maïwenn
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Re: ENGLISH TO BRETON HELP

Post by Maïwenn »

Ah, that's very easy, because we don't use anything. For example, "Yann's house" is "ti Yann"

But then, when talking about the master, we need the definite article "an"

So the lord's house: Ti an aotrou (house the master literaly)

the lord's land: Douar an aotrou
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luella175
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Re: English to breton, help

Post by luella175 »

Hi Maïwenn,

This is a thank you for your last help with syntax/punctuation. I am currently incorporating all of your help into my 'story.' I look forward to hearing from you regarding the translation by your priest friend. Thanks again, Lue
luella175
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Re: English to breton, help

Post by luella175 »

Hi Maïwenn,

I was wondering if you had heard back from your friend the priest about the Breton translation for "Go with God" and the blessing.
"May the Lord bless you and keep you.

May the Lord make his face to shine upon you,

and be gracious to you.

May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you,

and give you peace. Amen"

Thank you for your help
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Maïwenn
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Re: English to breton, help

Post by Maïwenn »

Yes, I received a mail from my friend last week. He had been very busy and had had no time to translate. But I confirmed that it was still needed, and I think he'll do it as soon as he can. :)
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Olivier
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Re: English to breton, help

Post by Olivier »

luella175 wrote:"May the Lord bless you and keep you.
May the Lord make his face to shine upon you,
and be gracious to you.
May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you,
and give you peace. Amen"
This is a biblical quotation:
Numbers 6:24-26
יְבָרֶכְךָ יְהוָה, וְיִשְׁמְרֶךָ. {ס 24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee; {S}
יָאֵר יְהוָה פָּנָיו אֵלֶיךָ, וִיחֻנֶּךָּ. {ס 25 The LORD make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; {S}
יִשָּׂא יְהוָה פָּנָיו אֵלֶיךָ, וְיָשֵׂם לְךָ שָׁלוֹם. {ס 26 The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. {S}
Translations may vary, for instance in French:
Darby translation : (more literal)
L’Éternel te bénisse, et te garde !
L’Éternel fasse lever la lumière de sa face sur toi et use de grâce envers toi !
L’Éternel lève sa face sur toi et te donne la paix !
Traduction œcuménique de la Bible :
Que le SEIGNEUR te bénisse et te garde !
Que le SEIGNEUR fasse rayonner sur toi son regard et t'accorde sa grâce !
Que le SEIGNEUR porte sur toi son regard et te donne la paix !
Bible de Jérusalem : (catholic)
Que Yahvé te bénisse et te garde !
Que Yahvé fasse pour toi rayonner son visage et te fasse grâce !
Que Yahvé te découvre sa face et t'apporte la paix !
The best translation into Breton would probably be from a Breton Bible, like the Le Coat translation.
-- Olivier
Last edited by Olivier on 29 Sep 2010 17:12, edited 2 times in total.
Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy: Ni trop petit(e), ni trop grand(e):
Éppen hozzám való vagy! Tu es juste fait(e) pour moi!
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