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Lady Iris
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New member!

Post by Lady Iris »

Hi,

Just wanted to introduce myself. I am a native American English speaker and have lived in Germany for about 20 years, so can speak German relatively well. I'm able to help with requests in both those languages.

I am interested in getting some help with Brezhoneg, in particular the Morbihan (Vannes) dialect as I'm working on a series of books (in English) with characters who speak both German and Breton set in contemporary times.

I have a phrase book for English-Breton but it's very limited. For example, no useful phrases are listed for endearments (the series has a strong romance element).

I've also ordered a book/CD so I can start learning the grammar and such, but I fear it will be some time before I can do anything useful.

Just thanking anyone in advance for help!

Glad to have found the forum.
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Re: New member!

Post by Beaumont »

Welcome to this forum! :) Some of our members can speak "Brezhoneg", so please feel free to ask your questions here.
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Maïwenn
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Post by Maïwenn »

Indeed :)

If you have any questions feel free to ask. However, being from Finistère, I don't know much about Vannetais Breton, sometimes it sounds and looks like a foreign language to me.

Which book have you ordered?

Kenavo !
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Re: New member!

Post by Lady Iris »

Hi Maïwenn,

Very glad to meet you. I have the Hippocrene Dictionary Breton-English from J.F. Conroy and have ordered a CD from Routledge and a grammar book by Roparz Hemon and Michael Everson. I have a limited budget, but I'd guess the more expensive books available from the internet might be better.

The dialect is likely not so important - I'm just putting in a few phrases here and there, and I doubt any but native speakers would even notice a difference. In addition, I've made it so that the characters 'speak' a peculiar family dialect learned and passed down from ancestors (much like groups who retain a unique dialect when they move away from their homeland).

I'm going over the manuscript of the first book right now (I've just sold it to a very small ebook company in the U.S.) and will likely have something more specific in the next few days. I appreciate any help at all.

I did have some excellent help from a Celtic language expert, but I felt very guilty taking up his time for translation and hoped here I'd at least have a chance to return the favor in some form or another!
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Post by Maïwenn »

Of course I know Roparz Hemon, but I have no idea about the English/American writers' books. Now that I think of it, it was a silly question :lol:

Could you copy here some of the sentences that you already have? I'm just curious to know how Vannetais they are. It depends a lot on the spelling, and we have a lot of them in Breton ;)
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Here's just a few sentences - they appear in the later books and are not yet so important. I didn't have any in the first book at the time I asked him.

D'ar promes - To the promise
Promes an amzer da zont - The promise of the future

The above is a traditional family 'toast' .


Here's a love declaration:

Ar garantez zo ar vuhez - Love means life
Ma c'halon zo genoc'h - My heart remains yours
Kemeret-hi get ur promes - Take it with a promise

That's all he did for me that I can remember at the moment. I've done some other minor fumblings with words, which I'll post as soon as I can find them again. But I think I'll just back up at this point to the first book.
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Post by Maïwenn »

Thanks

Some words are definitely Vannetais Breton, but all in all it's quite standard.

I can check the words you found by yourself. It's really necessary, especially if you tried to use articles and possessive pronouns. Indeed, the first letter of most of the words change according to what comes before, so if you don't know the grammar you won't be able to make those changes.
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Thank you so much! Sorry, it's taken me so long to respond.

I think I mentioned that this takes place in contemporary times. In the first book, I only had the words 'Mat-tre' and 'Ma c'halon' that the male protagonist says to my female protag when they, um, get together. The first words are because she's followed his instructions, and the second is supposed to be a term of endearment.

I really need more of those - terms of endearment - they are easy to find in French, but hard to find (on the web at least) in Breton. One that would be good - the main (female) character's alter ego is a (red) wolf - something like 'my little wolf' would be good (although I realize that could be problematic - calling someone a wolf in many languages is not always complimentary).

Some curses (exclamations) - both mild and extreme - would also be good. I've found a few of those, but am unsure of how commonly they are actually used.

The other words I use - have adapted to use - for my purposes are 'Tud' which the Otherworld residents prefer to be called (they most violently resent being called 'fairies' or 'fae' and I cannot call them ban-sidhe, since this is not an Irish mythological pantheon!)

The Otherworld I have called Ande-dubnos. An Otherworld version of the castle where they live (this is hard to explain) is called Lahn-dunum. The real-world name of the castle is Burg Lahn.

One character occasionally says 'breur' to his brother, but I don't know if this is legitimate - would he say 'my brother' instead?

I have found many conflicting opinions of the correct form for 'I love you'. It would be good to know if there is one that is more appropriate than another - or even two versions of it (also, I adore you, would also be good). An old-fashioned usage would be very good, since they're supposed to be speaking a dialect that is no longer in use.

How does a daughter address her father (Papa or Da equivalents) or a father his daughter (here both formal and informal versions would be good)?

Oh, and before I forget, another male protagonist has a band - the English translation should be something like 'night country' or 'night land' - and I supposed something like Bro-Noz or would it be Noz-Bro - might be okay?

I have a ton of other questions, but I don't want to wear out my welcome. Any help is greatly appreciated. Virtual beer and/or brownies is the best I can do right now as a reward!
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Re: New member!

Post by Maïwenn »

Hi again!
I really need more of those - terms of endearment - they are easy to find in French, but hard to find (on the web at least) in Breton. One that would be good - the main (female) character's alter ego is a (red) wolf - something like 'my little wolf' would be good (although I realize that could be problematic - calling someone a wolf in many languages is not always complimentary).
My little wolf is "ma bleizig". It's not a normal endearment word, but I think it would work.
Terms of endearment were not as commonly used in Breton as in other languages. Here are a few I can think of
Ma dousig

Some curses (exclamations) - both mild and extreme - would also be good. I've found a few of those, but am unsure of how commonly they are actually used.
Easier than endearment as they are still in use :D
Gast ! (Prostitute, used like "shit")
Milc'hast ! (Same but stronger, 1000 prostitutes)
Ma doue ! (my god)
Malestou ! (Damned god)

Those I regularly heard from my father or grandfather

To talk about someone:
Leue brein (rotten calf)
Pimoc'h badezet (baptized pig, for someone who's useless)
Koll boued (-someone who- wastes food, also for useless people)
Genaoueg (idiot) and genaouegez (for a girl)
One character occasionally says 'breur' to his brother, but I don't know if this is legitimate - would he say 'my brother' instead?
Yes, "breur" alone is strange: "ma breur" is better.
I have found many conflicting opinions of the correct form for 'I love you'. It would be good to know if there is one that is more appropriate than another - or even two versions of it (also, I adore you, would also be good). An old-fashioned usage would be very good, since they're supposed to be speaking a dialect that is no longer in use.
That's not an easy thing indeed. Maybe, as it is supposed to be Vannetais and old, you can use Me da gar
How does a daughter address her father (Papa or Da equivalents) or a father his daughter (here both formal and informal versions would be good)?
In a formal way, a daughter would say "ma zad". More modern could be "tad" or "tadig" (daddy). A father would say "ma merc'h" (my daughter), or use her firstname maybe with the hypochoristic -ig at the end. Chan becomes Chanig for example.
Oh, and before I forget, another male protagonist has a band - the English translation should be something like 'night country' or 'night land' - and I supposed something like Bro-Noz or would it be Noz-Bro - might be okay?
I would say "Bro an noz". Quite a cool name actually :)
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Re: New member!

Post by Lady Iris »

omg, that was so incredibly helpful. I can't thank you enough, but I would love to give you a proper acknowledgement (if you want one - some people prefer to remain anonymous) - the first book is not due out until Spring/Summer of next year, but I'll PM you about that when things get closer.

In the meantime, I've got words! Work to do! Fabulous.

Good to know about the endearments - I can keep using the French and German ones I've already got in there and add the ones you've given me.

The curses will be extremely useful. :lol: I think one or the other I can also use for moments of passion - that was a problem I didn't know how to solve! Excellent.
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Re: New member!

Post by Maïwenn »

You're most welcome! :)

Actually, I've published a novel in Breton last year, so it seems normal to help a colleague :D

Feel free to ask if you need anything more.
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Re: New member!

Post by Olivier »

Maïwenn wrote:In a formal way, a daughter would say "ma zad". More modern could be "tad" or "tadig" (daddy). A father would say "ma merc'h" (my daughter), or use her firstname maybe with the hypochoristic -ig at the end. Chan becomes Chanig for example.
Oh, and before I forget, another male protagonist has a band - the English translation should be something like 'night country' or 'night land' - and I supposed something like Bro-Noz or would it be Noz-Bro - might be okay?
I would say "Bro an noz". Quite a cool name actually :)
Having a look at the text near your avatar "O Breiz ma bro" I thought: where did I see that "bro"? and in fact it was just here and a few minutes ago: everything is there to have it understood as "my" and "land", thanks for the solution of the riddle. :)
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Éppen hozzám való vagy! Tu es juste fait(e) pour moi!
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Re: New member!

Post by Maïwenn »

That's it :)
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