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Cyrillique

Posted: 05 Jul 2005 17:44
by Guest
Bonjour à tous !
Voilà je voudrais transcrire un mot en cyrillique, mais j'hésite pour l'orthographe.
En fait c'est un pseudo, Niavlys. Je prononce ça "GNAVLISS" avec au début le GN de magnétique.
J'hésite entre 3 façons et peut etre aucune n'est bonne ! Petite précision c'est destiné plutot à une russe.

Ньавлис
Нявлис
Нйавлис

Voilà, merci de votre aide ! ;)

Re: Cyrillique

Posted: 05 Jul 2005 19:08
by iubito
Ньавлис => ??? je sais pas
Нявлис => nyavlis, le "ya" étant prononcé d'un seul bloc
Нйавлис => niyavlis, on entend franchement le i.

Posted: 05 Jul 2005 20:32
by didine
J'opterais pour encore autre chose, Ниявлис.

:hello:

Posted: 06 Jul 2005 01:57
by sv
ou Ньявлис :hello:

Posted: 06 Jul 2005 08:54
by Olivier
quel est le principe suivi ici par l'orthographe russe?
parce que je comprends que Ньа- serait Ня- et que й après consonne Нйа- c'est bizarre (impossible?)
mais pour nya- (pas nyiya-) pourquoi Ния- et pourquoi Нья- plutôt que Ня- ?
-- Olivier

Posted: 06 Jul 2005 10:48
by sv
ньялис = nyalis.

this letter ь is called a soft mark. it softens a consonant before it.
я letter sounds like /ya/. and this letter softens a consonant before automatically
ньалис is incorrect spelling. ньа combination doesn't exist in russian at all i think. couse this sound combination is represented by ня = soft n + a. as you see /y/ form /ya/ is omitted here. /y/ appears only before vowels or at the beginning of a word. or before ь or ъ (hard mark).

in russian several vowels like я /ya/, е /ye/, ё /yo/, ю /yu/, (and и /i/) soften before standing consonant automatically but losting their /y/. to remove this softness hard mark is used - ъ.
ь and ъ force those я, е, ё, ю take their full sound forms - ya, ye, yo, yu.
ь and ъ create a break between sounds.

the difference between ньялис and нъялис is in softness of n. with soft mark it's soft with hard mark - hard. russian original way of pronounciation is to soften this /n/ in nyalis. нъялис sounds more unusual for russian language.

ниялис = niyalis
ниалис = nialis
нялис = n'alis (n' - soft n)

so the difference between ниялис and ньялис is in the length of i sound before ya.

in russian words й /"i short"/ often appears at the and of words. in original russian words there is no need in it in the middle of words, couse there are я, е, ё, ю and ь, ъ. but й is used in the middle of some borrowed words. sometimes there is no clearance e.g. mexican Yaxchilan is written by some people as Яшчилан but by others Йашчилан. there is no difference in sounds between йа and я, йо and ё, ю and йу, е and йэ there where full ya/ye/yo/yu sounds are used. but there is an advice of philologists to spell those sounds in a "russian way" with я, ё, ю, е. though i would say that in transliteration nowadays usage of я or йа, etc for some people is a matter of "beauty", but not of rules and advices. :lol:

нйа is not used it is spelled as нья or нъя. i find it diffcult to realize how to read consonant + й combinations. й usually stands after vowels.

p.s. i'm far not sure that what i wrote is complete or absolutely correct, cause russian grammar is such a grammar where native speakers can't be absolutely sure about anything :)