Russian to english.

sv · Post by sv » 30 May 2005 10:06

фразы "воевать Крым", "воевать турок", "воевать кого/что, страну, народ" и т.п. это архаизмы, но не настолько чтобы их нигде нельзя было услышать или прочитать. Даль, например, и не в те времена жил, и то звучит дико для нормальных ушей. он тоже в школе обучался.

я думаю то, что этому парню дали перевести, он не выдумал. и учителя его тоже вряд ли сами сочинили. человек со знанием современного русского языка как неродного такое не сочинит. это против современных правил, а правила они знают лучше чем большинство русских. но это не против правил у того же Даля. постороение "воевать кого/что" грамматически верно для 17-18-19 века. Суворов, например, славился тем, что бои называл драками. (Даль кстати приводит эти слова как синонимы), да и не он один, подобное же мог сказать Петр, например.
а словосочетание "хорошая драка" - это практически клише и в современном языке, причем старое.

стало быть практически по умолчанию - они где-то взяли готовую фразу, из какой-то книги. если это готовая фраза, она больше всего похожа на выражение кого-нибудь из полководцев 18 века.

можно пойти на грамоту.ру и спросить языковедов.

ALEXD · Post by **ALEXD** » 30 May 2005 12:02

Of course, "воевать турок/Крым" etc. is (was) OK. But "воюйте хорошую драку" - sounds very funny. SV, don't you ever faced with such sentence in communication with foreigners? It's seems to be quite common: "ползать на четвертинках" etc. Don't tell me that "четвертинки" is an archaism. Iknow who said that, and he don't have any idea about archaic Russian.

sv · Post by sv » 30 May 2005 12:55

it's not quite the same thing.
you say about grammatical and spelling mistakes.
but the problem is that "воевать (хорошую) драку" is grammaticaly correct though not for modern language. i said that my opinion from the very beginning was that they found this pharse in somewhat russian source, but not created it themselves. imperative form also proves it. it makes difference. what if they didn't create it themselves? then what? велик и могуч русский язык? )))

i know that foreign specialists in russian language know russian grammar better that native russian non-specialists. all in all it could not happen that they all of a sudden made several mistakes but created grammaticaly correct phrase which could be in use in 17-18th century. it's impossible, they are not that skillful.

as for you it's fun. as for me, i was stuck at first. but deciding that they just copied it from somewhere, started to think what could it be, and who could tell something like that. my first idea was it's something for Siberia's conquest times, etc. then thank godness they didn't suggest him to translate сарынь накичку.

ALEXD · Post by **ALEXD** » 30 May 2005 13:48

SV wrote:
then thank godness they didn't suggest him to translate сарынь накичку.

Olivier · Post by **Olivier** » 30 May 2005 14:43

sv wrote:thank godness they didn't suggest him to translate сарынь накичку.

I'm always ready to help: what is сарынь накичку?

-- Olivier

svernoux · Post by **svernoux** » 30 May 2005 16:54

Kstati, ALEX, the title of the topic is "Russian to English", so there is no doubt to me that the asker did want a translation from Russian into English.

ALEXD · Post by **ALEXD** » 31 May 2005 08:57

If so, he had a really weird textbook

svernoux · Post by **svernoux** » 31 May 2005 14:29

Or rather a weird teacher, I agree!

mikezikemikezike · Post by **mikezikemikezike** » 01 Jun 2005 08:09

I talked to my teacher about it, and gave him my translation as best as i could make it. it seemed to me that he wanted a more literal meaning out of it i guess... he's kind of a wierd guy. but i guess it was supposed to mean something along the lines: to fight the good fight. as in to fight for a good cause. thanks for the help i really appreciate it.