Please id language & translate

[russclan]

I have an ancestor picture from a passport. There is a large
"Sw" printed on the front & a passport # 25022. I believe this may be a
Swiss pasport. On the back of the photo I can make out "fahres Ulter"
there is a pair of dots over the "a". I am guessing the time period to be
from 1855 to 1880. I am hoping that you may be of assistance. Thank you very much in advance for any help. Bill Russ

[Pierre]

"fähres Ulter"

What you call a pair of dots over the "a" is a trema in French (and also, if I remember, in English), an Umlaut in German.

I think the first word could be a conjugated form of the German verb fahren meaning to travel (compare with the English word farewell)(Fahrschein = ticket). Please wait for confirmation ...

[Gast_echo73]

Hi,

I'm no expert on Swiss German of that period, but I doubt it being German. At least, "fähres" certainly is no verb form of "fahren" or anything alike. "Fähre" (Sing.) means "ferry", but the plural form is "Fähren", let aside the capitalization. Are you sure about the spelling?

Switzerland is (at least nowadays) usually referred to as CH (Confoederatio Helvetica) and not as SW, so also therefore I would doubt the Swiss origin.

Sorry for the "negative" info...

Regards

[Sisyphe]

That request is quite old, isn't it ? I doubt whether its author be still interested by it.

Anyway, "fähres" cannot be a form of the verb "fahren". "-es" does not be a verbal mark (2cd singular : du fährst). And "Ulster", as far I know, does not mean anything.

Otherwise, swiss passports are very recognizable : red, with a cross, and written in the four (or three for the oldest ones) tongues of Switzerland (french, german, italian, rhaeto-romanic), and "Switzerland" does not began with sw- in anyone of them (Suisse, Schweiz, Svizzera, Svizza)

I think "sw" should more probably means "Sweden". In that language you find also some "ä" (a with trema, or diaeresis ).

[Cãlin]

I think "sw" should more probably means "Sweden". In that language you find also some "ä" (a with trema, or diaeresis ).

Hmmm, I happen to have some doubts on this one...
The Swedish equivalent of the Grman "fahren" is "färdas" (deponent verb, first class). This verb cannot possibly take the form "fähres"... It has the following forms: att färdas, jag färdas, jag färdades, jag har färdats. Besides, the h+r combination is not specific to Swedish.
The ferry is called "färja" in Swedish.
Ulter doesn´t make me think of anything.

Sorry, it´s not Swedish. Neither Danish...

[didine]

Je me permets de faire passer ici ce message qui avait été initialement posté dans le forum Freelang.net. viewtopic.php?t=6029. et était resté sans réponse.

I have an ancestor picture from a passport. There is a large
"Sw" printed on the front & a passport # 25022. I believe this may be a
Swiss pasport. On the back of the photo I can make out "fahres Ulter"
there is a pair of dots over the "a". I am guessing the time period to be
from 1855 to 1880. I am hoping that you may be of assistance. Thank you very much in advance for any help. Bill Russ

Je ne sais pas si l'auteur de ce post attend encore une réponse, mais moi si !! : les énigmes de fond de malle me fouettent les neurones

Après quelques recherches chez notre ami Google, je trouve fahres principalement dans le domaine allemand (Patronyme Fahres - mais apparemment dans la question il ne s'agit pas d'un nom propre).

J'ai trouvé unge-fähres Alter sur un site suisse (texte de l'université de Zurich sur Pompéi) :

Wissenschafter konnten anhand dieser Skelette Rückschlüsse auf die soziale Herkunft der einzel-
nen Menschen, auf ihre Lebensumstände, Tätigkeiten (Sklaven oder Freie?), Geschlecht, unge-
fähres Alter, Ernährung (gut oder schlecht? genug oder zu wenig?), Krankheiten sowie – bei
Frauen – auf die Anzahl der geborenen Kinder ziehen.

Dans une revue allemande, Bundesgesetzblatt, encore unge-fähres Alter

4. folgende Beschreibung der Tiere:
a) bei Rindern die Ohrmarkennummer,
b) bei Schweinen Stückzahl, ungefähres Alter, Kennzeichnung,
c) bei Schafen und Ziegen Stückzahl, Kennzeichnung,
d) bei Pferden Geschlecht, Farbe, ungefähres Alter,
Abzeichen, Markierungen,
e) bei Geflügel Stückzahl, Rasse, ungefähres Alter.

N'étant aucunement familier avec la langue de Kant et de Dany Cohn-Bendit, si quelque germaniste passe par ici....

[Celinchen]

ungefähr (adverbe ici, mais peut aussi etre adjectif, d'ou les terminaisons) signifie a peu pres, il s'agit dans l'extrait de l'age approximatif, en bout de ligne donc avec une séparation... dommage, moi aussi ca m'intrigue ! J'aurais aussi opté pour une langue scandinave, mais laquelle ? Apparemment, le suedois serait out, dommage pour le Sw... ils parlents quoi au Swaziland

In case you don't understand French: ungefähr (adverb and adjective) means approximate/ly, so in the quotations it stands for approximate age. And that's it. Has anybody found the solution to the riddle? What language is it if not Swedish???

[Nemo]

ungefähr (adverbe ici, mais peut aussi etre adjectif, d'ou les terminaisons) signifie a peu pres, il s'agit dans l'extrait de l'age approximatif, en bout de ligne donc avec une séparation... dommage, moi aussi ca m'intrigue ! J'aurais aussi opté pour une langue scandinave, mais laquelle ? Apparemment, le suedois serait out, dommage pour le Sw... ils parlents quoi au Swaziland

In case you don't understand French: ungefähr (adverb and adjective) means approximate/ly, so in the quotations it stands for approximate age. And that's it. Has anybody found the solution to the riddle? What language is it if not Swedish???

Thank you Celinchen for your answer about ungefähr. So, the word fähres doesn't exist alone in german ?

I think we have not to link the "Sw" printed on the front of the photo and the language on the back : they can be different.

We can perhaps imagine that the photo has been cut or Russclan can't read the beggining of the word. And perhaps the second word has got a bit rubbed out : Ulter = Alter. Is there a number on the back? It would be logical on a photo : "approximate age"
Russclan we want to see the photo !!

(the language of Swazilznd is the Siswati : a new track for our riddle ? )

PS : sorry to all the english for my broken english

[Cubby]

Although I know more Swedish than German, I think it might be "jährer alter" (years old) in German. Is there a number or word before this phrase?

Also, in English, the dots above the a are normally referred to as an umlaut or a dieresis.

The fact that your read "ulter" makes me think that you're having a little trouble transcribing. Try looking at http://www.rtrfoundation.org/webart/For ... eutsch.pdf and see if maybe you had some of the letters wrong.

As for the SW, it could be the photographer's mark, some agent's mark, etc. Do you still have the passport? Do you know where your ancestor was born?

[svernoux]

Although I know more Swedish than German, I think it might be "jährer alter" (years old) in German.

The point is that "jährer alter" is NOT proper German. "X years old" in German is "X Jahre alt". Such thing as "jährer" does NOT exist in German.

[Cubby]

The point is that "jährer alter" is NOT proper German. "X years old" in German is "X Jahre alt". Such thing as "jährer" does NOT exist in German.

Yeah, I found it by doing a Google search and I was hoping that it might exist in a dialect or in older German. Could it be "frühen Alter"?

Oh well...

[svernoux]

Yeah, I found it by doing a Google search and I was hoping that it might exist in a dialect or in older German. Could it be "frühen Alter"?

I think "im frühen Alter" is a possible combination in German, it would mean "in his/her early years". But I can't tell if this is what russclan read on the passport, and moreover I can't figure out what such a phrase could have to do in a passport...