Can anyone tell me what this means

Alan62 · Post by **Alan62** » 22 Feb 2006 03:14

Any Help would be greatly appreciated

mansio · Post by **mansio** » 22 Feb 2006 09:13

In the bird you have from right to left "Allahu akbar" usually translated "God is great" but actually "God is the greatest".
The same on top of the seal.
In the seal there is probably the name of the craftsman. I can only guess "3abd al-F..." (as in Abdallah) at the moment.
There is the date 1984 at the bottom although I am not sure of the last figure.

Alan62 · Post by **Alan62** » 22 Feb 2006 14:31

Thank You mansio

muhannad · Post by **muhannad** » 22 Feb 2006 20:21

Hi, just a little correction.

1- The sentence in the bird is "Allah, Muhammad" but that one beside the bird is "Allahu Akbar".

2- The name of the craftsman is "3abdul 3zeez".

3- The date is 1982, not 1984.

Best regards.

mansio · Post by **mansio** » 22 Feb 2006 21:39

Shukran jazîlan Muhannad.
You are right. I did not manage to read anything in the bird at first, and then I thought it was an "akbar" badly written.
But what is written after 3abdu l-3azîz and on the left of the seal?

I take the opportunity to ask you an important question. For centuries we have been using in French the name Mahomet for Muhammad. You can find new books written by Muslim writer carrying that name.
Some French militant islamists have recently "discovered" that Mahomet is actually the negative of Muhammad because of the "Ma-" that looks like "mâ".
What would be the negative of "muhammad" in Arabic? Some say "mâ hummid".

Alan62 · Post by **Alan62** » 23 Feb 2006 05:11

Thanks Again
Perhaps you can try this one I am stiil trying to figure out

damas · Post by **damas** » 23 Feb 2006 15:49

mansio wrote:
Some French militant islamists have recently "discovered" that Mahomet is actually the negative of Muhammad because of the "Ma-" that looks like "mâ".
What would be the negative of "muhammad" in Arabic? Some say "mâ hummid".

The negative is "Ghayr muhammad" or " la muhammad" but it has no sense, since Muhammad is used only as a proper noun.
mâ Humida means "He wasn't thanked".

mansio · Post by **mansio** » 23 Feb 2006 16:05

Damas

Thank you for your answer. Do not forget our friend Alan!
This "Mahomet" issue is a serious one for French islamists. They managed to put it on the French Wikipedia for Mahomet. They think it is a plot against the Prophet.
In my discussion with some of them I want to show that it is impossible, according to the classical Arabic grammar, to find a phrase meaning the contrary of "muhammad" and that looks like "ma homet".
"Muhammad" is a participle meaning "praised" or "the praised one". So i have to know what "not praised" looks like in Arabic.
By what you say "mâ humida" is "he was not praised". I would like to know the same in the present tense, what is called the imperfective: "he is not praised".

muhannad · Post by **muhannad** » 23 Feb 2006 23:00

mansio wrote: ... it is impossible, according to the classical Arabic grammar, to find a phrase meaning the contrary of "muhammad" and that looks like "ma homet".
.

I think you are right. But not just for the word "muhammad".
To explain my idea,
most of the Arabian names have a meaning (just adjectives), like "Sa3eed" which means "happy", and so you can find words
with opposite meaning. ("Hazeen", which is not a proper noun, means "sad" the opposite of "Sa3eed").
But there is a lot of names (have a meaning), and you can not find a stand-alone word refers to the negative of that word.
Instead you could use a full sentence to explain it.
For example, my name "Muhannad" means "a sword which is made using an Indian iron".
Then, there is no word to express about the negative of my name.(You can not say "Ghayr Muhannad" or anything else).

I think I talk too much. And to answer your question,
a word which means "He is not praised" is "Ghayr mahmood" or "Ghayr mamdooH" or (as slang "moo mahmood").

As for the seal,
I think the word beside the "3abdu l-3azîz" is "mHeesen" which is the family name.
And to the left of the seal, there is the craftsman's signature.

muhannad · Post by **muhannad** » 23 Feb 2006 23:01

Alan62, I'm sorry. I have not known what is written in those pictures.
But I think they were written in old Arabic language.
In the old language, letters were written without dots, so different letters may look like the same.
Then, people were be able to recognize the right letter from the sentence context.
For example,
the letter ِش (the 13th letter in arabic language) was written like س (the 12ed letter).
Please, tell me if you know what is written in it.

mansio · Post by **mansio** » 23 Feb 2006 23:54

Muhannad

Thank you for your answer. In my grammar books I found "hummida" which is the passive of the second form in the perfective (past tense).
But I need the word in the imperfective (present and future). So I found "yuhammadu" and its negative "mâ yuhammadu" which can be translated into "he is not (he will not be) praised".
If that is the right form for the possible negative of Muhammad, then it does not look like Mahomet.

In Alan's last inscription I can decipher "laa fataa illaa 3ilm laa..."

muhannad · Post by **muhannad** » 23 Feb 2006 23:56

Hi.
Hey Alan62, I think I figure out what was the sentence in the pictures
( or "picture" because the two pictures are the same).

The sentence says: "la fata ella Ali (the first line), la sayf ella dhol-feqar".
Its mean is: "No boy except 'Ali', no sword except 'dhol-feqar'".
If you want explanation of it, here it is:

'Ali' is the name of 'Al-Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (Karraml-lahu wajhahw)'.
He is the cousin of the Prophet Muhammad (3alayhis-sallam).

'dhol-feqar' is the name of Imam Ali's sword.

This sentence is said by Shi'a Muslims.

If you want to know anything else about 'Imam Ali', you could visit this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_ibn_Abi_Talib

I think I'm very fast.

damas · Post by **damas** » 24 Feb 2006 00:52

muhannad wrote:Hi.
I think I'm very fast.

Yes you are

. Alan had asked me about this a while ago, but I couldn't get anything out of it.

muhannad · Post by **muhannad** » 24 Feb 2006 01:49

muhannad wrote: ... like "Sa3eed" which means "happy"

Hi Damas, what is your opinion about what I said.

Alan62 · Post by **Alan62** » 24 Feb 2006 03:24

Thank you all so much I have been trying to figure it out a long time.
Are you up to another?

This one may be really difficult because I believe it is Sanskrit or Tibetan of some kind.

Again Thank you all for your help,
It is very difficult for an extreme novice like me to try to read these things.