I was reading some things about norwegian on the forum of the university in Zagreb ....
I've read that nynorsk is some kind of the real norwegian and bookmal is becoming to danish or it is danish....
What's the great truth???
And one more question....i heave not met many croats here, but if somebody knows could you agree that our 3 big main dialects become 3 official languages????????
As you know (or you don't =) croatian dialects are VERRRRY difficult to understand between 2 Croats and especially between some stranger who is learning official croatian and some person from the part of Croatia where you can't find official Croatian.
For example you can see that in Germany i think or in Spain (catalán, gallego) the same way as there...they are very different just as in croatia
please tell me your opinion
Norsk
Moderators: kokoyaya, Beaumont
Re: Norsk
The different, I think. Bokmaal is the real norwegian - and the most understandable of the two! Nynorsk (ny=new) is a newer version - and very different, besides Bokmaal sounds nicer... But bookmal is closer danish, yes, and Nynorsk is a little more special.bambino wrote:I was reading some things about norwegian on the forum of the university in Zagreb ....
I've read that nynorsk is some kind of the real norwegian and bookmal is becoming to danish or it is danish....
What's the great truth???
43% of all statistics are useless.
Hi, there!
About very different dialects or languages used in a same country, this doesn't seem to always be a sufficient argument.
True that in Spain local languages (Catalan, Basque, Gallego...) are now accepted in universities etc. Imagine the problem: a native English teacher has - or at least this happened a few years ago - to accept a translation exercise from English into Gallego... His/her knowledge is mainly English, and Castellan-Spanish!
Cameroon has over 200 dialects... Would it be feasible to have more than 200 official languages? Imagine the quantity of translators and interpreters, just for official discussions and documents! And even if a few might be similar, how, politically, can you choose which ones would be official and which ones not? The result is 2 official languages: French and English! And, for the story, it's the only country in this situation where French is more important than English!
And when you go thru Belgium and realize the difference between the two main language zones, you have the feeling you're in different countries... (just about the same goes for Switzerland).
This said, I don't have any idea of the criteria needed to add or modify official languages.
About very different dialects or languages used in a same country, this doesn't seem to always be a sufficient argument.
True that in Spain local languages (Catalan, Basque, Gallego...) are now accepted in universities etc. Imagine the problem: a native English teacher has - or at least this happened a few years ago - to accept a translation exercise from English into Gallego... His/her knowledge is mainly English, and Castellan-Spanish!
Cameroon has over 200 dialects... Would it be feasible to have more than 200 official languages? Imagine the quantity of translators and interpreters, just for official discussions and documents! And even if a few might be similar, how, politically, can you choose which ones would be official and which ones not? The result is 2 official languages: French and English! And, for the story, it's the only country in this situation where French is more important than English!
And when you go thru Belgium and realize the difference between the two main language zones, you have the feeling you're in different countries... (just about the same goes for Switzerland).
This said, I don't have any idea of the criteria needed to add or modify official languages.
Just to precise a bit, there are 3 official languages in Belgium, and, yes, once you switch linguistic zone, you feel like you are in another country. In Flanders, people mostly do not want to speak in French, even if they are able to do so. But most of the Walloons (French-speaking Belgians) make no effort to speak Dutch.
The 3rd official language is German, spoken near the Luxemburg.
A 4th language much spoken in Belgium is Arabic. Last year, I think, some islamic movement even required Arabic to be recognized as the 4th official language of Belgium
Geoffrey
The 3rd official language is German, spoken near the Luxemburg.
A 4th language much spoken in Belgium is Arabic. Last year, I think, some islamic movement even required Arabic to be recognized as the 4th official language of Belgium
Geoffrey
Hi,
I understand by your message that the 3 croatian languages are dialects from the same language (an old croatian or something like this). If I'm mistake, correct me.
The catalan, gallego are not dialects of the spanish. They born directly from latin. They have the same resemblance with spanish like with other languages. For example gallego is very similar to portuguese, and catalan is very similar to italian. So the problem seems diferent.
About the oficiallity, I think it's normal because a lot of people speaks this languages. I'm from a catalan speaker zone, so I'm going to speak a little about catalan. "The total population of Catalan speakers is about 10.540.000. As an example, its territory is bigger than Holland, Belgium, Denmark and Switzerland". This data is from (http://www.june29.com/HLP/lang/Catalan/webcat1.html), and is from 1994, so now is a little more. Spain has 40 millions people, so 1/4 of the people of Spain speaks catalan. It's true that the catalan speakers speaks spanish too, but I think that this is not a reason to make spanish the only official language. If this is a reason, then we can do the english the only offical language of the Earth. If you add to this 10 millions of catalan speakers, more than 3 millions of gallego speakers and 600.000 of euskera, you have about 14 million people in Spain that speaks spanish and another language. This is an important percentage of the population.
I understand by your message that the 3 croatian languages are dialects from the same language (an old croatian or something like this). If I'm mistake, correct me.
The catalan, gallego are not dialects of the spanish. They born directly from latin. They have the same resemblance with spanish like with other languages. For example gallego is very similar to portuguese, and catalan is very similar to italian. So the problem seems diferent.
About the oficiallity, I think it's normal because a lot of people speaks this languages. I'm from a catalan speaker zone, so I'm going to speak a little about catalan. "The total population of Catalan speakers is about 10.540.000. As an example, its territory is bigger than Holland, Belgium, Denmark and Switzerland". This data is from (http://www.june29.com/HLP/lang/Catalan/webcat1.html), and is from 1994, so now is a little more. Spain has 40 millions people, so 1/4 of the people of Spain speaks catalan. It's true that the catalan speakers speaks spanish too, but I think that this is not a reason to make spanish the only official language. If this is a reason, then we can do the english the only offical language of the Earth. If you add to this 10 millions of catalan speakers, more than 3 millions of gallego speakers and 600.000 of euskera, you have about 14 million people in Spain that speaks spanish and another language. This is an important percentage of the population.
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j u d i t h
- Membre / Member
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- Joined: 21 Apr 2003 09:17
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Re: Norsk
Hej PontusPontus wrote: The different, I think. Bokmaal is the real norwegian - and the most understandable of the two! Nynorsk (ny=new) is a newer version - and very different, besides Bokmaal sounds nicer... But bookmal is closer danish, yes, and Nynorsk is a little more special.
I totally agree with you! Bokmål sounds nicer and is much easier to understand
I think it's funny - written Bokmål looks like Danish, and spoken Bokmål sounds like Swedish. Well, not exactly of course
Ha de'!
Judith my dear friend kereslas, i didn't understand your first line about croatian dialects, but they are not old dialects, you can here them all the time, but they are veeeeeerrrrryyyy hard even for me, the native croat........
I think you know how croatia looks like (very strange, like bird), so you can imagine that the eastern croatia has one dialect which is pure, north and west (with zagreb) another, very hard to pronounce and southern croatia, the third one...
so.....bye, till next time
I think you know how croatia looks like (very strange, like bird), so you can imagine that the eastern croatia has one dialect which is pure, north and west (with zagreb) another, very hard to pronounce and southern croatia, the third one...
so.....bye, till next time
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Bernadette
- Membre / Member
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- Joined: 10 May 2003 12:01
- Location: FRANCE
Hi,
When I said old croatian, I refered to the initial language from what the dialects derived, not to the dialects itselfs. I know that the croatian language is very used in Croatia and not old. Maybe common language is a better election than old croatian. I suppose that before the different dialects exists, there was a unique croatian language (I mean with little differences, and not with big differences like you said). The difference with spanish - catalan is that they don't have this common language before they become different. They are different directly from latin.
I think the problem is with my english
It's not very good. I hope that you understand now what I want to say.
Greetings.
When I said old croatian, I refered to the initial language from what the dialects derived, not to the dialects itselfs. I know that the croatian language is very used in Croatia and not old. Maybe common language is a better election than old croatian. I suppose that before the different dialects exists, there was a unique croatian language (I mean with little differences, and not with big differences like you said). The difference with spanish - catalan is that they don't have this common language before they become different. They are different directly from latin.
I think the problem is with my english
It's not very good. I hope that you understand now what I want to say.Greetings.
As Roman languages came from Latin, Slavic languages( russian,polish,ucrainian, czech, slovak,belarus,croatian, serbian,slovenian,macedonian and bulgarian) came from a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig language called "Oldslavic". It was spread all around nowadays Slavic countries, now you can imagine how biiiiiiiiiig it was. Take for example Russia+all other countries......... 
I'm intersted in Catalan....Listen, next year i'll spend my summer in Spain, and for sure it will be near barcelona coz it's a big trip from Zagreb...
I wanna know, do people from barcelona speak a good spanish like from madrid or castilla or bad as from andalucia??? ( I adore spanish, so i wanna listen a nice one
Now,,do you have some residence, appartment near barcelona for rent(about 15 days) so we can change. Because i've got appartment in northern croatian coast. It is in Poreč, very nice and old town...
Well, that's all folks, and keresles, i'm sorry if the answer was stupid and the question cheeky
I'm intersted in Catalan....Listen, next year i'll spend my summer in Spain, and for sure it will be near barcelona coz it's a big trip from Zagreb...
I wanna know, do people from barcelona speak a good spanish like from madrid or castilla or bad as from andalucia??? ( I adore spanish, so i wanna listen a nice one Now,,do you have some residence, appartment near barcelona for rent(about 15 days) so we can change. Because i've got appartment in northern croatian coast. It is in Poreč, very nice and old town...
Well, that's all folks, and keresles, i'm sorry if the answer was stupid and the question cheeky
What's a good Spanish? I think we talked about that somewhere on this forum. True that Spanish from Castilla is supposed to be the "pure" one (called Castellano when not called Spanish - there must be a reason!).bambino wrote:do people from barcelona speak a good spanish like from madrid or castilla or bad as from andalucia??? ( I adore spanish, so i wanna listen a nice one
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Nelson
- Guest
I will try to explain this whole Nynorsk & Bokmål thing.
First of all, both of them are offcial languages in Norway. All school kids must learn both, and every public official must master both.
Let's take Bokmål first. The name means Booklanguage (Book = bok, mål = language/tongue). As Norway (NO) use to be a part of Denmark (DK),until Napoleon lost at Waterloo, then Sweden (SE) got Norway as spoil of war. This period in Norwegian cultural history (when NO was part of DK)is sometimes refered as "the Dark Ages", as Norwegians tried to assimilate Danish culture and language. So over time most people in the cities spoke a "dialect" of Danish. However in the rural areas most people kept speaking as they always did. When NO started it's way to independence from SE, one of the things that was adressed was the language. So some people (do not remember the dates or names) started travelling the countryside and compilled a language based on all rural dialects. This became Nynorsk (New Norwegian; Ny = New - norsk= norwegian). As you might guess most people that fall under the areas where nynorsk is predominent speak their own dialect. And some of them are very difficult to understand (specially the nothern NO), even for Norwegians! (But I guess that common in most countries).
As Bokmål was so widely it was impossible to impose one over the other, so the became equals.
This is a somewhat simplistic view, and I'm sorry for not providing dates or names. I just did not think anybody would be interested, however if any of you want them just say so. Hope this clear things up.
First of all, both of them are offcial languages in Norway. All school kids must learn both, and every public official must master both.
Let's take Bokmål first. The name means Booklanguage (Book = bok, mål = language/tongue). As Norway (NO) use to be a part of Denmark (DK),until Napoleon lost at Waterloo, then Sweden (SE) got Norway as spoil of war. This period in Norwegian cultural history (when NO was part of DK)is sometimes refered as "the Dark Ages", as Norwegians tried to assimilate Danish culture and language. So over time most people in the cities spoke a "dialect" of Danish. However in the rural areas most people kept speaking as they always did. When NO started it's way to independence from SE, one of the things that was adressed was the language. So some people (do not remember the dates or names) started travelling the countryside and compilled a language based on all rural dialects. This became Nynorsk (New Norwegian; Ny = New - norsk= norwegian). As you might guess most people that fall under the areas where nynorsk is predominent speak their own dialect. And some of them are very difficult to understand (specially the nothern NO), even for Norwegians! (But I guess that common in most countries).
As Bokmål was so widely it was impossible to impose one over the other, so the became equals.
This is a somewhat simplistic view, and I'm sorry for not providing dates or names. I just did not think anybody would be interested, however if any of you want them just say so. Hope this clear things up.
Hum...
Good Spanish do not exist. It is only the pure like said Soleil but the
other kind of Spanish are only not the same. Like in Italian, the pure is
from Tuscany. The Neapolitan dialect is Italian but with some variance.
So we can say that it is a bad dialect, only another one.
I am not really in the subject of the forum but I needed to say the
variance and Scandinavian are nice.
other kind of Spanish are only not the same. Like in Italian, the pure is
from Tuscany. The Neapolitan dialect is Italian but with some variance.
So we can say that it is a bad dialect, only another one.
I am not really in the subject of the forum but I needed to say the
variance and Scandinavian are nice.
À vouloir fuir la pluie, on tombe bien souvent dans la rivière.