question sur le grammaire arabe

Katya · Post by **Katya** » 13 Jul 2006 22:47

Bonjour a tous-
J'ai suit une cours tres bref de la langue arabe l'annee derniere et j'essaie maintenant de la souvenir avec l'aide d'un texte. Donc, une petite question sur le grammaire, s'il vous plait: est-ce que c'est vrai que les suffixes qu'on utilise avec un nom pour designer la possesion sont les memes qu'on utilise avec les verbes pour montrer l'object direct? Par exemple, on peut dire تشاةدي = "tu me regardes"? Aussi, j'aimerais savoir s'il existe des resources de grammaire arabe sur le net.
Merci pour l'aide!

Mariam · Post by **Mariam** » 14 Jul 2006 12:03

Bonjour,

Si j'ai bien compris votre question, cela est bien correcte.
Voici une page sur les préfixes et suffixes sur Wiki.

And there is plenty of materials concerning Arabic on the internet.
Language guide.
Mesiti.
...

I hope that helps.

Katya · Post by **Katya** » 15 Jul 2006 17:47

Thank you so much! The language guide site is very helpful. My textbook is poorly organized so it is difficult to look up information. شكرا جدا

Mariam · Post by **Mariam** » 15 Jul 2006 20:05

You're most welcome. لا شكر على واجب
And rather say: شكرا جزيلا

Katya · Post by **Katya** » 15 Jul 2006 20:15

Oops, شكرا جزيلا. Is Arabic your native language? I have a friend in Morocco whose family I would like to be able to speak with in Arabic, although I know the Moroccan dialect is fairly different from Modern Standard Arabic.

Mariam · Post by **Mariam** » 16 Jul 2006 14:40

Yes, Arabic is my native language, and I am Moroccan.
Moroccan dialect is indeed considered to be the most difficult dialect among all Arabic varieties spoken; and it's naturally quite different than MSA.

Where are you learning Morocco dialect, then?

damiro · Post by **damiro** » 16 Jul 2006 19:15

Mariam, are your sources for MSA? Because I've just bought a 'Langue pour tous' book to learn the basics of Arabic, but it's said in the book that it's not standard arabic nor dialectical arabic, but a mid-way... I see it bacause the conjugation is much more easy than the table I've seen on Wikipedia.
If I only considered your zikipedia table, I'd be as lost as in a maze.

Mariam · Post by **Mariam** » 16 Jul 2006 20:40

Yes damiro, the pages I posted here are about MSA, not any dialect. They're not perfect, as I saw many mistakes on them, but I couldn't find any better yet.

As for learning a mid-way language, what would be the use of it? Do you learn a language to master it, or just for the sake of being able to communicate with its speakers, just on the very basic level of 'communicating'?
If you ask me, better learn MSA, then you'll get to understand dialects more easily.

damiro · Post by **damiro** » 17 Jul 2006 00:44

For arabic, I would say fist being able to communicate, and then improving it with the refinment of the language... I would like to make it one of my translation languahes, but I'm alone to learnor better say I don't folow any class of arabic because I have no time to do it. I'm earning german in addition to my official English and spanish university cursus. So, etter go slowly than too quickly, moreover, how would I lern classical arabic by myself with a couple of hours here and there? Next year, I'll try to follow 3h/week of arabic and 1h/week in greek in addition to my self-learning of german.

But his mid-way is supposed to be journalisic arabic, with easier conjugations and grammar, to start with.

Mariam · Post by **Mariam** » 17 Jul 2006 00:47

Oh, I see! I thought you meant by a mid-way Arabic, a broken language that's even lower than a dialect.

Arabic is indeed a language for which one usually needs some tutor to help one with it.

You're welcome to ask me about anything you need in Arabic, I'll be pleased to help.

gilou · Post by **gilou** » 17 Jul 2006 07:57

damiro wrote:Mariam, are your sources for MSA? Because I've just bought a 'Langue pour tous' book to learn the basics of Arabic, but it's said in the book that it's not standard arabic nor dialectical arabic, but a mid-way... I see it bacause the conjugation is much more easy than the table I've seen on Wikipedia.
If I only considered your zikipedia table, I'd be as lost as in a maze.

May I suggest two reference books:
In french: Grammaire de l'arabe by Gerard Leconte, ed. PUF. This short and cheap book (110 pp) covers most of the grammar of classical arabic in a very clear way.
In english: A new arabic grammar, by J A Haywood and H M Nahmad, ed. Lund Humphries London. Bigger book (500 pp), that covers more details than Leconte's book, with more example sentences, and exercises. But Leconte presentation of the grammar is better, and I usually read it first, and then go for more details in the Haywood-Nahmad.

A+,

damiro · Post by **damiro** » 17 Jul 2006 10:41

Thanks for the referees gilou... I didn't know these books because n the beggest bookstore of Liège (Fnac) this book isn't available on shelves, I mean you need to orr and buy it without seeing it.

Mariam: Many thanks for your help, I'll ask some questions when I've read some units of m books. I use this book to start with, but I've also " L'Arabe pour les francophones", a small dictionary boughtin Tunisia (cheaper than here for the same quality compared to what you find in Fnac).

See you, and have a nice day

Katya · Post by **Katya** » 18 Jul 2006 15:00

I have my textbook "Al Kitab" from taking MSA for a semester in college, and I just downloaded a texbook on Moroccan Arabic from the Peace Corps website "friendsofmorocco.org." Do you think I should switch and concentrate on the Moroccan dialect? I worry about mixing up too many languages, and I might want standard Arabic some day.

damiro · Post by **damiro** » 18 Jul 2006 15:30

Personally, if I were you, I would go on with MSA rather than a dialect. In Morocco, everybody who attended some courses in whichever school is able to understand. Am I wrong Mariam?

Mariam · Post by **Mariam** » 20 Jul 2006 14:00

I agree with damiro. If you ask me Katya, rather concentrate on MSA. Be sure that you'll be understood wherever you go in the Arabic world if you speak MSA, instead of a particular dialect. Speaking Moroccan in Egypt would not really help as much as MSA can.
Everybody will understand you, I said, and most of them will try to answer back in at least a simplified dialect that's close to MSA for you to understand.

Unless you're interested in Moroccan only, and that you don't really care about the other dialects and the language itself, then just concentrate on the dialect.